Author Topic: Digitech 2101 Users  (Read 7502 times)

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Offline Johnny

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Digitech 2101 Users
« on: September 23, 2010, 08:45:17 AM »
This thread is dedicated for Digitech 2101 users only.Please do not post anything that doesn't have to do with the 2101 in this thread. If you do, it will be deleted!
This will be a tips,tricks,discussion and links thread for the amazing Digitech 2101.

Danny Danzi has used the 2101's for years and I've been a user for about a year now. I've also used the Johnson Millenniums over the past 10 years and nothing else. The millenniums are based on the 2120's and the 2112's I believe and are tone monsters like the 2101. They are a little more forgiving when it comes to programming though. Danny knows the 2101 like the back of his hand and I'm sure you've heard his tone. When the 2101 first came out,.it got bad reviews and I think the going price was about $1200.00. The bad reviews it got was because the users didn't understand how to program it,..but since then the 2101 is sought after and is an amazing piece of gear that has the potential of being one of the best processors ever made IMO. It was way ahead of it's time like the millenniums. If you understand how to program the 2101's algorithms,..you'll have a truly amazing tone monster on your hands. I'm just learning how to get around the 2101, because it is a hard piece of gear to get around,...LMAO. The best thing I can tell you is to use the manual and use the sample walk through step by step instructions on setting up an algorithm. The hardest part IMO,..is the routing of the inputs and outputs. Danny told me that you need to have a dry signal from start to finish using mixers. I still don't understand how that works,.but I'm getting close. It's not by any means a simple to use processor,..like line 6 gear or any of the others. The 2101 is a professional piece of gear that takes time to learn fully.

To get things rolling. Here are some useful links to great sites that have tons of information on the 2101.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Excellent site for info, patches and software for the 2101.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Great site also for info and patches.
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Foot Controllers
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login For Manuals.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Harmony Central Reviews,.some good,.some bad.
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Discussion thread about the 2101 and more.

Johnny
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 07:40:59 AM by Johnny »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 08:48:39 AM »
Here is an explanation from Danny Danzi on a basic Algorithm set-up. A few tips and tricks to keep in mind.  

Thank you Danny.

Part 1

    It really is a shame they made this unit so difficult. Some guys get lucky and can tweak some of the user patches....others like myself, are so picky no matter what I did with the user patches, I wasn't happy. The reason for that is....the user patches and stock algorithms just don't have everything I need. For example...

    I like to have a stereo chorus, stereo ping pong delay, stereo verb and a 3-band parametric in every patch. Some of the user patches were close, but they may have used a verb, delay or chorus that I didn't like. There are so many different verbs, delays, chorus etc to choose from, it's just mad. LOL! Sometimes I want a 15 band graphic in line, or for the VH stuff I need flange, phaser, parametric and verb...why use stock stuff when you can create your own.

    Here's a few pointers to keep in mind...

    1. When configuring algorithms, always keep your dry signal in the mix with your patching. Use mixers like no tomorrow in your patches. For example, if we had a chorus first in line with 2 outputs, you'd go into a a mixer with 3 ins and the outs of that mixer would depend on how many ins the next effect is. I'll set up a scenario for you.

    Here's the chain...and you'll have to create your chain on paper first, trust me. Don't try it without writing it down first. Select the effects you want to use. Make a note of how many ins and outs they have. For this example, we'll do a 1 in 2 out chorus, a 1 in 2 out delay and a 1 in 2 out reverb. Within that algorithm, we'll need mixers. You will need to determine which to use based on the ins and outs of your effects. This is confusing, but it's the only way I know. For the config we're using above, you'll need 1-2x1, 1-3x3 mixer, 1-4x3 mixer and 1-4x2 mixer I'll explain. The order would be 2x1-chorus-3x3-delay-4x3-reverb-4x2.

    Make sure the unit is set up to run in stereo. Take the outs from the unit chain in the beginning and run them into the 2x1. The out from the 2x1 needs to run into the input of the chorus...you're done there with the chorus, but remember we have to come back to this to hook up something later.

    Insert the 3x3 mixer next after the chorus. 2 of the outs from the chorus into the 2 outs of the 3x3 leaving one input open. Then you go back to the first 2x1 mixer and take the out we mentioned that we had to hook up later and put it into the last in of the 3x3. Now, this is why this is so confusing. In the real world of hooking up ins to outs, we have already hooked the output of the 2x1 into the chorus. But we have to keep our dry signal in the mix and the 2101 allows you to virtually patch things that wouldn't be right in the real world. This is why this sucks so bad, but it is a necessity. So you connect the out of the first 2x1 mixer also to one of the 3x3 ins.

  
Part 2
    From there, you put in your delay. 1 of the outs of the last 3x3 we worked on goes into the input of this delay leaving us 2 outs from that 3x3 left over. We'll get back to it to take care of the other 2 outs left over. Insert a 4x3 mixer next. Take the 2 outs of the stereo delay into 2 of the ins on this mixer. From there, take the 2 outs from the 3x3 we didn't hook up yet, and run them into the other 2 ins of this new 4x3 mixer.

    Next, bring in your reverb. One of the outs of the 4x3 mixer goes to the in of the verb. You have 2 left over, again we'll get back to them. Insert your last mixer which is a 4x2. Bring the 2 outs of the reverb into the 2 ins of this mixer, and you guessed it...the other 2 ins we left behind on the 4x3 mixer go into the other 2 ins on this new 4x2 mixer...and whew....you're done!

    Now the unit will give you an option to perform an auto-link. You can select yes but it will not hook the stuff up like I mentioned above. It will come close, but it won't do it all. You can allow auto-link but then you have to go back and fix some stuff.

    For this all to work after your done with the internal patching, make sure your wet/dry is set to 100% wet and then tweak your effects levels in each effect to taste. The numbers will wind up being very small yet you'll hear loads of effect. This is a good thing. Just keep them lower if need be. My verb level is like on 6 or 8.

    This is the best way I can explain algorithms. So if you don't understand what I've said here, you're on your own and I can't tell it any different or explain it any better. It's confusing, it sucks, but it is what it is. Remember, each effect that is before another, needs to be routed to the next mixer down the line. You're always going back a step to bring something forward. That's the best way I can explain it. Always use speaker sim using a hybrid XLR on one end and TRS 1/4 on the other when using it with an amp or power amp. Keep the speaker sim button pressed in at all times. For straight studio work, straight XLR or the hybrid I mentioned will also work if all you have is 1/4 ins on your soundcard.

    If the unit sounds a little too warm, go go global eq by hitting utility and one arrow press to the right and you'll see a global eq. Drop 640hz down by one click which is -2dB. This will take out the super mids if it's too warm. But keep in mind, anything you touch here will effect the entire sound of the unit as this eq adjusts EVERYTHING. Good luck!

 Rock on!

    Danny Danzi
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 08:51:58 AM by Johnny »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 09:07:45 AM »
Danny explains,..a basic HAAS effect algor.
The most basic preset I have right here that I'm looking at with a HAAS would be the following algorithm...which is one I made myself. I don't use this preset anymore because my needs have changed and the new algorithm for this is just too insane to discuss. But here's one of the old ones that will give you the sound you're looking for.

    2x3 SMDly 3x1 MVrb 5x2 MMix is what my algorithm screen reads. so those are the components you'll need to install. All this can be used on one S-Disc so the other can be left alone for seemless program changing. The config would be routed as follows when you go to patch it all up. Use the auto patch function if you want to try it, but most times it will not work. So I use manual.

    Again, the algorithm screen should read this: 2x3 SMDly 3x1 MVrb 5x2 MMix.

    To route it, do the following:

    2 stereo outs internally to the 2 ins on the 2x3.

    1&2 outs of the 2x3 into 1&2 ins of the SMDly.

    SMDly outs to 1&2 ins of the 3x1. The 3rd out from the 2x3 into in 3 of the 3x1.

    Out 1 of the 3x1 into in 1 of MVrb. MVrb outs 1&2 to ins 1&2 of the 5x2. 3x1 out (used again) to in 3 of 5x2. SMDly outs 1&2 (used again) into ins 4&5 on the 5x2. 5x2 outs to MMix.

    Mixer levels: All mixer levels at 100 and pans hard left/hard right (50 L/50 R) with the exception of mix in 3 on the 5x2. This will be panned center and the level will still be at 100.

    Mix button on unit when pressed should read Wet 100% and be set all the way to the right.

    You will need to adjust the reverb level which can be done by pressing the reverb button. Turn the level down to taste because it will be jacked way up there.

    

    Rock on!

    Danny Danzi
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 09:09:24 AM by Johnny »

Offline captain spasm

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 03:38:08 AM »
AAAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
 
Think I've killed my 2101!!
 
put it in the fx loop of my Marshall 9000 preamp (cabled correctly!) to use it for fx only ... been experimenting with my live sound & thought it was about time I actually used it.
 
After half an hour .... "hummm ... bzzzzzz .... pop!"
 
And the lights went out.
 
Now it seems dead.
 
 
BUGGER!

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 10:53:34 AM »
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AAAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
 
Think I've killed my 2101!!
 
put it in the fx loop of my Marshall 9000 preamp (cabled correctly!) to use it for fx only ... been experimenting with my live sound & thought it was about time I actually used it.
 
After half an hour .... "hummm ... bzzzzzz .... pop!"
 
And the lights went out.
 
Now it seems dead.
 
 
BUGGER!

John,.man you've had nothing but trouble with that unit. Just a bad one and I'm sorry to hear that it died.  Did you take it apart to see what fried. Put it up on ebay for parts and start looking again. You just got a bad one and the guy knew that I would imagine before him sold it to you.  Sucks! 

Offline captain spasm

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 10:58:27 AM »
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AAAAARRRGGGHHH!!!
 
Think I've killed my 2101!!
 
put it in the fx loop of my Marshall 9000 preamp (cabled correctly!) to use it for fx only ... been experimenting with my live sound & thought it was about time I actually used it.
 
After half an hour .... "hummm ... bzzzzzz .... pop!"
 
And the lights went out.
 
Now it seems dead.
 
 
BUGGER!

John,.man you've had nothing but trouble with that unit. Just a bad one and I'm sorry to hear that it died.  Did you take it apart to see what fried. Put it up on ebay for parts and start looking again. You just got a bad one and the guy knew that I would imagine before him sold it to you.  Sucks! 

No, no post-mortem yet. Not had time this weekend. Not home again after tonight till next Friday ... and then I'm gigging both Friday and Saturday evenings. Moving home at the end of the month too, so looks like no time to check it out until sometime next month either.

May be just a blown fuse (I hope!).

It's been working fine the last few times I've been able to fire it up, which, admittedly, hasn't been very often.

Frustrated!!!


Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 11:23:21 AM »
I'm sure you are man! Let me know when ya get back!

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 05:56:25 AM »
Here is a picture of the above HAAS algorithm that was made using the 2101 editor,.found here.  Thank you Danny!

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 :rockon:
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 07:39:58 AM by Johnny »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2011, 05:30:38 AM »
Well, the new 2101 should be here today. Just waiting on the phone call to pick it up at Guitar Center. Pretty excited...

EDIT: got it sitting here and looks great and sound even better!! 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 04:49:33 AM by Johnny »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2011, 05:10:07 AM »
OK,.called Digitech yesterday and found out that they still make the 3.00 artist upgrade upon request for $25 US. Comes with instruction manual for the install. So,.you 2101 owners that don't have the artist chips,.you don't have to order it from Germany like I was going to do. Ordering it from Germany would have cost me around $50 US and shipping would have taken 8 to 10 weeks. Maybe worth picking up a second or third 2101 to keep around since the chips are still available. It's a shame they don't make the PPC-210 card still.

I did have a long conversation with Digitech about the 2101 and bringing it back. They said that there was an article in a magazine recently about how good the 2101 was and still is sought after by guitarist. I would have liked to have read that article,.but couldn't find it. I told them that if they brought it back they would have a ton of sales. BUT I also told them this time to make an editor for it like Line-6 has but with more options. Deep editing for algorithms and routings. They did say the are thinking about it. I even went as far as telling them a good name for it would be GSP 2101 Classic and said it would be great to have an option to change the screen colors,.maybe blue, green, red if you wanted to change it. Make it user friendly this time but keep with the same original sounds it has. We'll see what happens. Keep your fingers crossed. The main reason these got some bad reviews is not that they sounded bad,.it was that if you didn't know how to program it the "right" way,.users put it down and that's just not the case. These are and still are way ahead of the times when it comes to GSP's. I've tried so many different GSP's,.and really none come close to the 2101.       
     
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 05:11:44 AM by Johnny »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2011, 04:48:56 AM »
I know there isn't many of us on here,.maybe 2 or 3 that uses the 2101,.but here's a tip. When you get your tones set with
it,.backup all your patches. It's the best thing you can do with your 2101,.ya never know when that battery will say bye  bye.
They last about 6 to 7 years,.so back up or you'll be cryin one day when you switch on the 2101 and all your patches
are gone. If you're not sure when the last time the battery was changed,.then backup you stuff and then change the
battery. 

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 05:45:08 AM »
Any interesting patches you guys have,.post-em here. Like to hear some of them.

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2011, 08:56:25 AM »
Ok,.after using the 2101 for about 2 yeas now I found that it was way before it's time when it comes to being a tone monster.  You can do just about anything with it you can think up. You can route any parameter to either a foot switch on the controller or internal expression pedal or an external expression pedal. Say if you wanted to bring up the Depth setting on a chorus in real time using the expression pedal,.it's very simple to do,.you just link the expression pedal to the chorus depth setting and set it's minimum and maximum range you want and it's done.  You can do this with any parameter within the 2101.

One thing of interest that took awhile to figure out.  There is a 3rd party "2101 Edit" listed above in the first post that you can download. It is a simple editor that you can make your own algorithms...picture above in post #7. The issue I found with the software is this and it was driving me nuts that I couldn't get it to work no matter what I did. So I gave up on it until I thought about it. The editor was coded in 1998/1999 on a windows 98 machine and that's what the issue was. It just won't work for some reason on an XP machine. Yes you can make an algorithm with it on an XP machine but you can't dump it to the 2101 for some reason. It don't work. What I did was use a PC I had with windows XP on it that I didn't use anymore and installed a copy of windows 98 I had lying around.  It took about a week to get windows 98 on a newer machine because of it's hardware drivers that just aren't available for windows 98 for the newer hardware.  So I ended up just installing windows 98 with no drivers for any of the newer hardware in the machine. It wouldn't  see the CD rom drive after the install of windows 98 either,.so I had to use another hard drive to install some of the drivers that I needed. I did manage to get the CD rom to work after a few days of looking for drivers. I use a M-Audio Uno Usb to midi interface to transfer to and from the 2101,.so I had to install it's drivers that was available on their site. They had the driver for windows 98.  After all the work to get shit right with the 98 machine, I installed the 2101 Edit and it works perfectly. It saves a lot of time when making your own patches. It is so time saving that it's nuts. It is so much better then you sitting in front of the 2101 and using it's buttons to do the same thing the software does in a few minutes. Using the 2101 edit software, you add in your modules do your routing connections and dump it to the 2101. It's that simple. You just have to adjust your settings after it's dumped to taste.       

I also used it to do a bulk dump from my older 2101 to the computer and then to my newer 2101. I now have a carbon copy of my older 2101 for a backup for gigs on the new 2101. Pretty happy about what I found out to make the editing software to work properly.  It's also great for saving your patches for future battery changes or issues with the 2101 that might come up. This way you have all your patches ready to install and you lose nothing.

 :rockon: 

 

Offline captain spasm

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 04:16:51 AM »
Hey,

I just created my 1st algorithm.   :rockon:

Harmoniser - Dual chorus - Stereo Flange - 4TapDly2.

Took all the advice re: mixers and carried the dry signal throughout the entire algorithm, all the way through to the final L & R outputs.

Works ok, but when I compare like for like with a standard, simpler algorithm (F9 & F10), my algorithm massively sucked the tone out of my guitar signal (mixers all with identical level settings, effect to dry and global wet:dry mix = 50:50 for all 3 algorithms).

The same applies even with all fx turned off in all 3 algorithms.

Any thoughts? The only essential difference is the presence of the Harmoniser ... is it known to suck tone just by being included in the chain (even if bypassed)?

Could live without the harmoniser, though I do use it in a couple of songs (e.g. Scorpions' "Rock You Like A Hurricane"), but I'd still rather have it there if I can avoid the tone-sucking phenomena.

N.B. the dry signal was carried through by splitting the "1" & "2" outputs of each successive effect module and routing them direct to the next-occurring mixer (parallel to and following the next-in-line fx module) ... similar to the routing in the manual.

Should I instead be routing the dry signals from the beginning of the chain, directly to the last-in-line mixer before the main outputs (isn't this what the global wet:dry mixer does anyway "behind the scenes")?
 
 :morningcoffee:

Offline Johnny

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Re: Digitech 2101 Users
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 08:17:58 AM »
John,.you could leave the harmonizer in the chain and just use it when needed. Use one of the foot controller pedals to turn it off and on. Also make a different algor without the dry signal passing all the way through. I've done this and got good results. The 2101 is a great tool,.but difficult to get "right". The other thing you could do is use a preloaded algor and tweak it. You have to play with this thing just like any other FX processor. You'll get it right and you'll love it once you do.     

John also,.if you look at the algor above for the haas effect,.it doesn't have the dry signal pass all the way through.

For your gain, mess with that also. I found that less is more! 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 08:23:28 AM by Johnny »

 

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